What’s Worse, a Grandiose or a Covert Narcissist?

One of you rattles your tail and shows your scales in the sun.

The other lurks in the grass and pretends to be a stick, a ripple, a movement of the wind.

One of you broadcasts a warning to all who know what your type is wont to do.

The other says oh, me, don’t worry. I’m harmless. I would not cause a problem or be a threat.

One of you says pay attention, give me the stage, I am wonderful and unique and I deserve the adulation of the world.

The other says pay attention, give me the stage, I was hurt and treated unfairly and I deserve the pity of the world.

One of you boasts, one of you complains. One of you struts, one of you sulks.

One of you is so colorful and shiny some may want to come close — but if we have any knowledge of snakes like this, we won’t.

The other is dull and brown and seems inoffensive and needing care — we think we can hold and nurture them, only to find the bite is deadly.

What’s worse? One of you is a snake, and the other is as well. And a snake is a snake is a snake.

ABOUT THE AUTHOR

Ann Betz is the co-founder of BEabove Leadership and an expert on the intersection of neuroscience, coaching, trauma and human transformation. She speaks, trains and coaches internationally, and writes about neuroscience and coaching as well as relational trauma. Ann is also a published poet who loves cats and rain in the desert. She has become much better at snake identification.

Why Narcissists Need to Kill Your Autonomy

How Narcissists Disrupt our Core Needs Series: Need number two, our need for autonomy and personal agency.

As I mentioned in the first post in this series, one of our six core needs is the need for autonomy, agency, and independence. We all want to feel we have some level of control and self-determination in our lives, that we can make our own decisions and have our own preferences and direction. In this post I want to look at why this is so threatening to a narcissist and how they work to disrupt it.

It’s a common refrain from people in narcissist relationships: why do they have to be so dominating? Well, it might be summed up in one short sentence: the need for power and control. As the wise Dr. Ramani says, one behavior you will generally see in narcissism/toxic relationships is being incredibly rigid (this is the R in her C.R.A.V.E.D. model). They feel (wrongly of course) that being rigid will give them the power that seems to elude them in life. This rigidity expresses itself as wanting to control you and everything in the relationship, from money to time to what you wear — and more.

When you think about it, who really feels intense needs to control things? People who sense they are out of control. Narcissists want desperately to feel that they are calling the shots in life. For some, this feels like it is eluding them. Thus they lean hard on those they can manipulate and control. For others, control is their fundamental operating system and they have organized their lives so that everyone dances to their tune.

Narcissists generally feel so ill-done by the world (particularly the covert narcissist), that it can seem like things are out of control for them. Why won’t people just line up and give them the adulation, riches and success they feel they deserve? Why doesn’t everyone simply fall at their feet because of their innate amazingness? And even if they have managed to accumulate material success, as some do, the thirst is rarely quenched and they will still see that the world owes them more. (I also want to mention that even if the narcissist is “successful” by consensus reality standards, they are generally not successful in terms of the whole of their lives. For example, having deep, rich, mutually loving relationships.)

And so, they control what they can, which is, all too often, you. And thus, by trying to deal with a narcissist, to “work” with them and adapt to the situation, you have to sacrifice your own need for autonomy and self-determination. With a narcissist you have to go along or pay the price, whether it is rage or a guilt trip (both are controlling strategies of course).

Typically with narcissists this starts small and you may feel you are going along because it doesn’t matter to you and you are simply being nice — or even that they are being nice. They may ask you to quit your job, saying “you work so hard, let me take care of you.” And from there decide that you don’t need a car, nice clothes, or a separate bank account. In this example, you don’t realize at first that the motivation is not to help you out, but rather, to put you in a position where you have lost your autonomy. And when control in a narcissistic relationship goes on too long, we can even lose our sense of what we ourselves want, prefer, and need.

This probably goes without saying, but healthy relationships enhance and help us fulfill our core needs, they don’t disrupt them. A good partner wants you to be autonomous and fulfilled. They know this makes you happy and it’s actually more rewarding to be with a happy person than it is to control them. Narcissists on the other hand? They never get this.

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In the process of healing and need some support? Contact Ann for one-to-one coaching.

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ABOUT THE AUTHOR

Ann Betz is the co-founder of BEabove Leadership and an expert on the intersection of neuroscience, coaching, trauma and human transformation. She speaks, trains and coaches internationally, and writes about neuroscience and coaching as well as relational trauma. Ann is also a published poet who loves cats, rain in the desert, and healthy relationships. She’s grateful her partner celebrates and supports her autonomy (and vice versa).

The Way Out of Narcissistic Relationships is to Stop Understanding

….but perhaps, begin to really understand.

Four years ago, when the scales fell from my eyes and I learned that the incredible toxicity I was living in had a name (covert narcissism), I started to write about my experiences. That book, still very much in progress, is tentatively titled “Stop Understanding.”

Why? Bottom line, because I realized that my propensity for understanding was one of the main reasons I stayed with him. All the nasty toxic crap he pulled? I kept, well, understanding. And what did that understanding look like? Let me count the ways:

ONE: He was trying and failing to make it in a new career, one where I was already successful, which made him jealous. It’s hard to be gracious when you’re feeling low. I’ve been there. I understood.

TWO: He didn’t have much financial stability and money was a huge concern, which tended to make him edgy and defensive. It’s tough to worry about paying the mortgage. I know what it’s like not to have money. I understood.

THREE: He had been mistreated as a child and still carried a great deal of unresolved anger around with him, which made him lash out with cruelty. It sucks to be abused. I know that childhood abuse can have a lifelong impact. I understood.

FOUR: He had ideas he wanted to bring to the world and had a difficult time getting much traction. It’s hard to have things to say when no one seems to be listening. I’ve been through this myself. I understood.

FIVE: He was moody and unsociable and didn’t have any friends to speak of. It’s hard to have a sunny disposition when everything around you seems to be going wrong. I’ve been depressed myself. I understood.

To me, being understanding felt loving, kind, and spiritually aware. Whatever he did, whatever he said, I tried to have compassion. I tried to understand. But what I didn’t understand, my friends, was what was really going on:

ONE: He was starting a new career at age 68 because he’d screwed everything up in his life previously. He had no ability to stick to things, and his entitlement put people off and got him fired from other jobs. He was jealous of my success without being able to see or appreciate that it was the result of 20 years very hard work and advanced education.

TWO: He had money troubles because he was a shopping addict, and because of #1 above, had been unemployed and bankrupt for a significant portion of his life. He was edgy and defensive because it’s likely that on some level he knew all his troubles were self-inflicted.

THREE: While it may be true that he was abused as a child, many children are abused without becoming abusers themselves. He had had years of therapy and coaching and many opportunities to heal and move on, but ended up abusing and manipulating people instead. See Why Narcissists Can’t Change for more on this.

FOUR: He had little to say that was actually interesting or original. He lacked the discipline or intellect to develop his ideas and be someone worth listening to. It was all part of his bluff that he was the world’s greatest undiscovered genius. See the Shallowness of the Narcissist for more on this.

FIVE: He had no friends and an unfulfilling life because sooner or later, he alienated everyone, including me. He wasn’t a victim, as he claimed, he was a victimizer, and the world was simply showing him the results.

And thus, as the fog lifted and I began to see things for what they were, I gave myself some important advice: where narcissists are concerned, you actually need to stop understanding–and start to understand. And while your story may not be quite the same as mine, it can be helpful to ask yourself, am I being “understanding” while not fully seeing what is really going on? Do I need to stop understanding?

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In the process of healing and need some support? Contact Ann for one-to-one coaching.

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ABOUT THE AUTHOR

Ann Betz is the co-founder of BEabove Leadership and an expert on the intersection of neuroscience, coaching, trauma and human transformation. She speaks, trains and coaches internationally, and writes about neuroscience and coaching as well as relational trauma. Ann is also a published poet who loves cats, rain in the desert, and healthy relationships. She much more discerning about what she understands these days.

Why We Keep Getting Involved With Narcissists

This ain’t my first rodeo. ~ Vern Gosdin

When I was figuring out that the person I was involved with was a covert malignant narcissist, I found myself saying that it had taken me completely by surprise, because I had no history with narcissists. At least, that’s what I saw at first — the experience felt like it came out of nowhere. But as I read, listened and studied this whole area, plus reflected more deeply on my own experience, I realized that no, this was not my first rodeo after all. I’d been around narcissists my whole life. I just didn’t know it.

Here are a few stars from my own cast of characters:

~ Growing up with various family members who “parentified” me and expected me to focus on their needs and problems while ignoring my own.

~ My first husband who I married impulsively at age 23 after he love bombed me. Could not keep a job, ran up huge credit card debt, picked fights, was obsessed with body building, never took responsibility for anything, and constantly stepped over my boundaries. I now see he is probably a classic grandiose narcissist. I divorced him after only four years but he still tries to “hoover” me from time to time!

~ My college advisor who found me on FB years later. He love bombed me, left wife number 3 to date me, pushed me to move in together after a month, denigrated my work, and then broke up with me by text after another month or so. Another classic grandiose narcissist, most likely. He remarried a few months later and then reached out after another year or so saying he was divorced again and would we like to hook up? I blocked him.

~ A short term boyfriend who was wonderful and full on, until I pushed back on something and he turned nasty. Luckily I was not that into the relationship yet and ended it quickly.

And so I now see that I was well-trained to get seriously involved with a narcissist. I had experienced it many times, I just wasn’t aware that the reason the relationships felt off, difficult, and unsatisfying was largely to do with the toxic person I was involved with. I don’t mean to dodge any personal responsibility, by the way. I know I had things to learn about communication and relationships. But I probably had way more to learn about identifying and standing up for my own needs, speaking my truth, and not putting up with neglect or ill-treatment.

We learn coping strategies to deal with how we are treated, particularly early in life. We also tend to associate patterns in our families with love and safety, even if they are dysfunctional. I had a friend a few years ago who was involved with a woman who insulted and demeaned him. He told me that his mom had done so as well, and so on some level this felt like love to him, and being treated kindly was actually uncomfortable. I was both sad for him and impressed by his level of self-awareness — although it didn’t seem to be enough to have him move on.

And so, all too often for many of us, this may not be our first rodeo. But through knowledge, awareness and courage, we can hopefully make it our last.

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In the process of healing and need some support? Contact Ann for one-to-one coaching.

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Want to learn how to work with relational trauma as a coach? Join our next Certification Program for Neuroscience, Coaching and Relational Trauma starting January 2023.

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ABOUT THE AUTHOR

Ann Betz is the co-founder of BEabove Leadership and an expert on the intersection of neuroscience, coaching, trauma and human transformation. She speaks, trains and coaches internationally, and writes about neuroscience and coaching as well as relational trauma. Ann is also a published poet who loves cats, rain in the desert, and healthy relationships. She isn’t going to the rodeo any more…..

The Narcissist’s Stunning Lack of Insight

The narcissist ex had a well-rehearsed and fairly compelling tale of woe, which of course I heard on the first date (and many many times after as he made sure to regale each new acquaintance with the same exact story). According to him, he’d been a high up well-paid executive who unfairly lost his position, only to end up with nothing. The story had colorful details, like how he’d put empty cartons back in the cabinets so his kids wouldn’t see how few groceries they had. And the rock bottom point when he realized he had 67 cents in his pocket and that was it. He still carried those coins in his pocket “as a reminder.” It was a fascinating story, well-told due to many repetitions over the years.

At one point, he ran across a local non-denominational congregation that was always looking for speakers at their Sunday services, and he signed up to tell his story. A couple of friends and I went to support him and he did a decent enough job. He pulled out the 67 cents and had the congregation interested. Except this time in hearing the story, I realized there was no “so what.” I knew something had always bugged me and it finally hit me that there was no point. No learning. No growth. No realization. It just was this thing that had happened that he felt he somehow deserved honor and attention for.

He asked me after the talk what I thought. I told him he’d done a good job, but that I was wondering what the point was? What had he learned as a result of his experience?* He literally sort of goggled at me and said “What do you mean?”

I said “It’s great, but how did this experience impact you? What’s different about you because of what you went through?”

He hemmed and hawed and was clearly at a loss. Finally he said, “I guess I learned that people would help me.” And that was it. Even then, I didn’t have the sense he meant it. I think he was just looking for something I would buy.

It’s not just this example and it’s not just him. Narcissists in general are flummoxed by what things mean on a deeper level, and they can be quite talented at keeping us from realizing this. As I said, I had heard his story a few times before it fully dawned on me it was glaringly incomplete.

Why is this? They don’t tend to look more deeply at the meaning of their experiences because they aren’t in a process of growth and change. Why would they be? They believe they deserve our attention and care just because. And if anything goes wrong, well, it’s everyone else’s fault so what on earth would they need to learn?

If you ask a narcissist what they learned through a difficult experience, you’d be lucky to get something even as deep as “people will help me.” It’s much more likely that if you heard anything, it would be dysfunctional statements like:

~ I learned to watch my back
~ I learned people suck
~ I learned the best defense is a good offense
~ I learned I’m in it alone

In other words, not growth or transformation, just more fuel for their victim story. In order for humans to grow, we have to honestly self-reflect. Whether or not narcissists are capable of this (debatable), they avoid it like the plague. Why? One reason is that their core wound is generally shame, and they do everything they possibly can to hide that from others. And even more importantly, avoid facing it themselves. The risk of reflecting and making true meaning of their experiences is that they will be required to look at where they themselves messed up and were wrong, thus shattering the fragile persona they’ve constructed to deal with the world.

Also see The Shallowness of the Narcissist for more on this topic.

*According to The Moth, this is actually Storytelling 101. A good story, one that transports the listener, takes us through some kind of change. The key is to show your transformation over the course of the story. We meet one version of you in the beginning and we meet another by the end.

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In the process of healing and need some support? Join our next group coaching program (starts January 2023) or Contact Ann for one-to-one coaching.

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Want to learn how to work with relational trauma as a coach? Join our next Certification Program for Neuroscience, Coaching and Relational Trauma starting January 2023.

ABOUT THE AUTHOR

Ann Betz is the co-founder of BEabove Leadership and an expert on the intersection of neuroscience, coaching, trauma and human transformation. She speaks, trains and coaches internationally, and writes about neuroscience and coaching as well as relational trauma. Ann is also a published poet who loves cats, rain in the desert, and healthy relationships.  She prefers people who hang out in the deep end of the pool.

The Devil Doesn’t Advertise

Reflections on the dangerous covert narcissist.

the devil, they say
doesn’t advertise
you won’t see
a red cape
horns
or cloven hooves

these days the devil
comes dressed
as the thing you
deeply long for

they come with flowers
promises
and attention

they‘ve practiced the fine art
of disguise
to walk in this world
mostly
uninterrupted

the devil in fact
will protest
they are
the best angel
you have ever met

they will tell you that
your meeting
(divinely ordered)
is fate

you will want
with every fiber of your being
to believe them

and sometimes
some of us
to our great misfortune
will

~Ann Betz, June 2021

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In the process of healing and need some support? Our relational trauma group coaching program starts fall 2022. Or contact Ann for one-to-one coaching.

—————————-

Want to learn how to work with relational trauma as a coach? Join our next Certification Program for Neuroscience, Coaching and Relational Trauma starting January 2023.

ABOUT THE AUTHOR

Ann Betz is the co-founder of BEabove Leadership and an expert on the intersection of neuroscience, coaching, trauma and human transformation. She speaks, trains and coaches internationally, and writes about neuroscience and coaching as well as relational trauma. Ann is also a published poet who loves cats, rain in the desert, and healthy relationships. She finds poetry incredibly helpful in processing difficult experiences.

Knowing Your Narcissist, or The Importance of Snake Identification

We have snakes in New Mexico, and when I moved here about six years ago it became apparent that it’s important to know what kind is sunning on one’s driveway. Is it a harmless bull snake (they eat rodents and are lucky to have around) or a very similar in coloring rattlesnake that you might want to have the local volunteers come and move? It can be difficult to tell the difference unless you know what to look for.

I think of narcissism in a similar way, because, unless you know what to look for, it can masquerade as something else. In my own case, I didn’t know there was a type of narcissist that didn’t boast and brag like a certain U.S. ex-president, but rather, roped their victims in with tales of woe and even seemed somewhat humble (see Covert/Vulnerable in the table below). I kept thinking that this guy seemed narcissistic, but how on earth could he be when he made sure to tell everyone he met his tale of woe? (After I left him I asked a mutual friend if X had told him the story of how he unfairly lost his job etc, etc. and my friend just looked at me and replied “Oh yes. Twice.”)

Thank goodness for search engines, blogs and YouTube, because when I finally asked the internet “can you be humble and still be a narcissist?” I got hundreds and hundred of hits, and my snake was identified. Knowledge is power.

So what are we looking at in terms of narcissism? It is extreme self-involvement to the degree that they ignore the needs and feeling of those around them. While the classic assumption is that narcissists love themselves too much, the truth is actually somewhat darker. Research shows that most narcissists actually tend to have very low self-esteem. They may be extremely charming (especially at first) but this charm usually masks deep-seated feelings of shame and a highly disrupted sense of self.

Narcissists tend to be dismissive and may or may not be malignant. There are two main types: covert (victims or vulnerable) and overt (grandiose). Covert narcissists are the classic wolves in sheep’s clothing, in that they hide their narcissism beneath a mask of victimhood and vulnerability. Since we don’t generally associate these attributes with narcissism, they can fool those around them into thinking they have had a run of bad luck or are victims of an unfair world. Overt narcissists, and the other hand, are the classic blowhards, demanding center stage and clearly making everything about themselves. Both fundamentally expect that the world revolves around them, have little to no empathy (more on the complex research on empathy in a subsequent blog post), and tend to create tremendous havoc in the lives of people around them.

Narcissists seek what is called “supply” through their behavior and treatment of those around them. Supply has been compared to the blood a vampire needs in order to live, and for narcissists it can feel just as necessary to survival. 

Experts in narcissist abuse have identified at least ten distinct types of narcissism (the brilliant Dr. Ramani Durvasula has a series of videos on each one of these on her YouTube channel). The person may be more than one at a time, and/or their narcissism may manifest differently depending on stress, age, context and circumstances. For example, an Overt Grandiose Narcissist may become a Covert Vulnerable Narcissist when their life is not going well or as they age, and vice versa.

Here are the various main types of narcissist, with examples of how they may typically get their “supply.”

	Type	Source of Supply	Examples of How they Seek Supply
1	Overt—grandiose	Attention	Drama, broadcasting their superiority to others
2	Covert—vulnerable	Sympathy	Playing the victim, telling victim story
3	Malignant—out to get you, on the borderline with sociopath	Dominance, control	Controlling and even inflicting pain on others, manipulation
4	Sexual	Sexual encounters, being “good in bed”	Promiscuity, cheating, online flirting, tend to be more concerned with performance than connection, so sex can feel somewhat cold
5	Somatic	Attention being paid to their physical attributes, being the prettiest, sexiest, thinnest, most handsome etc.	Social media, calling attention to how they look
6	Cerebral	Being the smartest one in the room, being known for their brains	Making others look stupid, making sure they themselves are on the top of the intellectual heap
7	Spiritual	Being “holier than thou,” living (or often simply saying they do) the “correct” spiritual life	Claiming they are closer to God than others, claiming they are God on earth (many cult leaders are spiritual narcissists), dominating or controlling others justified by spiritual teachings
8	Communal / Altruistic	Being the most giving or serving person (and making sure others know it); “saving the world”	Doing acts of service but making sure everyone knows they are the ones who gave the money, sponsored the event or donated the building
9	Benign / Neglectful	Self-indulgence	Simply focusing on their own needs to the exclusion of others’ (such as their family) needs
10	Cultural / Generational	Being the center of attention or in control	Justifying being the center of attention and/or dominating others through cultural traditions, gender or age

I hope this helps you know whether the snake sunning itself in your driveway (or living in your house or running your department) is benign or not!

About the Author

Ann Betz is the co-founder of BEabove Leadership and an expert on the intersection of neuroscience, coaching, trauma and human transformation. She speaks, trains and coaches internationally, and writes about neuroscience and coaching as well as relational trauma. Ann is also a published poet who loves cats, rain in the desert, and healthy relationships.

In the process of healing and need some support? Our relational trauma group coaching program starts fall 2022. Or contact Ann for one-to-one coaching.

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